Nähmaschinentechnik-Forum

Beste,
For a long time i am Interested in repairing my own shoes and trousers and dreaming to adapt them to my needs ideas and play around with saddles, and canvas. I have no experians with sewing machines so i studied a few day's on the web and
got directly bitten by the beauty and simplicity of the older more industrial machines... But reading so often the problem of finding hooks and bobbins or to dismantel the whole machine i bought me last week a 29K71 instead of a rusty Colybri...or a heavy duty saddle makers machine. This to have first some sewing instead of unscrewing experians... This may sound wize by some but since then I sleep the bare minimum and have stopped my daily duties. Not being able to clearly identify an industrial patcher and the (un)certainty whether the singer 29 can sew my wildest dreams or pure escapism for a less fun task...?
Or instant addiction is also possible...
Ok this as far as my introduction apart from the fact that i live in Belgium and in my search I was referred by Lutz from the Naehlaschinenverzeichnis to your forum.

In the meantime I have been able to identify the machine to a certain extent thanks to their website to a Claes / Pfaff 201 model of which I could not find any pictures on the internet bud seems to be a cross between an Elastik and the next generation machines instead of a conversion which is alway's possible beleving the experianced...
Since I don't have any pictures I call "it" a Colhybrid for now. Visually, the Claes RPX appears to be the successor.

1. Does anyone know the specifications of the 200 series to the extent that I can ask the current owner for an easy measurement or check to find out if the machine can sew 12mm or 15mm material thickness... The machine is in a private exhibition space unused for many years (acquired from a cobbler). 2. Does anyone know what the maximum stitch length was for the 200 -1and -2 model and for the 200-3 or -A3 machine?
A possible longer arm, longer stitch length, thicker needles, thread and material thickness make me consider making a day trip to thread the mashine and try to stich with it.... I red that the bobbin's are also hard to find and or very expensive if new... 3. The difference of the max.material thickness between the singer and the claes is not so great if you compare it with the 200 - 1 model. ( 0,95mm. and 12 mm.) Are there other specs that have greater differences to the Singer 29K71 that are inportant to considder? 4. Where those claes 201 mashines of lower quality or produced mutch less or both?
Sorry for my English bud my German writing is worse ; ) I hope i am clear enough if not mail me back and thank's for anny advise. Grüsse Elastitch

Hello,
Pfaff did not produce this type of machine, but bought it from Claes and then rebranded it.
The quality of Claes machines has been outstanding for more than 100 years. It doesn't matter whether it's Singer, Adler or Claes - after a long period of use, they don't always have the maximum stitch length that was stated in the brochures.
Although Claes has also exported to America, there are of course more Singer 29k produced.
Below is the link to the user manual.
http://www.naehmaschinentechnik-forum.d ... 12#p123407

Hej Inch,
Thanks so mutch for the manual (also to Ravemachine! & the forum) and your explanation!
This allows me to inform myself much better before I make a decision!

Greetings Elastitch

Keep in mind that the CLAES 200/ 201 and so forth as well as the Singer 29K71 and so forth are designed for repair work and not really for producing leather goods. In the end the decision is yours. Patchers are super versatile but are not really the ideal heavy duty leather work machines. They are often sold as saddler machines but a saddler usually has more than 1 machine and he does repair work as well /f.i. with patchers). So if a patcher machine (no matter the brand) is the right choice depends on what you want to sew /produce. Only because a machine weights a lot and is fairly large in its dimensions does not mean it is the right or best choice for f.i. producing leather belts or wallets.

IMO the Singer 29K71 is the technically most advanced patcher machine with bell crank lever feed (all 29 / 29K and their clones as + all Adler 30 have a bell crank lever). The big advantage on the 29K71 is that almost all parts are still available at a very good price. That ist because the machine and its parts are still in production. They are all made in Asia nowadays (mainly China and Taiwan) but still - you can get most parts, especially wear parts, for a fairly low price. Down side is that the bobbins are very tiny and do not hold much thread therefore. The machine - in very best case - produces a 5mm long stitch but the more worn the machine is (f.i. the bell crank lever and feed motion ring as well as the rollers) the shorter the stitches will be. So finding a 29k that is producing a 4mm or just 3mm long stitch is not too unusual. But again - you still can get all the parts to restore it and improve the stitch length again. I have a 29K71 and have restored and fine tuned it. I can sew nearly 12mm stick materials BUT that is not what the machine was designed fore. Sewing material this thick will wear out the machine rather fast I think. BTW do not mix up the 29K71 with other 29 /29K machines. Singer 29K machines went through several development steps. Certain parts remained the same but a lot parts have changed, especially the pinions and racks in the hook drive train. So when looking for a 29K patcher you should look for one in the 29K7x series. Rule of thumb - the higher the number after the K the better is the parts situation.

CLAES Patchers like the 200, RPX, 201, 8345, 8346 have a different feeding system. They do not use the "classic" bell crank lever & feed motion ring and from what I have experienced the stitch length even at older machines are always at 6mm (I have used 200, 8345 and 8346). They seem not to wear out as the the Bell crank lever machines do. Most CLAES pathcers I have seen make a 6-7mm long stitch. Downside is that the parts are expensive. You still can get some parts for the older machines cause the newer 8345 and 8346 are still using parts form the Model 200. When looking at the 8346 parts list you will find numbers starting with 200 and these parts are "left overs" from the Modell 200. The CLAES patchers came with hooks in 3 different sizes. Suffix 1 - smallest hook, suffix 2 - medium hook, suffix 3 is the larges hook. Also the larges hook (starting with Modell 200 AFAIK - not sure about the 201 and RPX) has a higher foot lift as well and is using a longer needle (system 88) whereas the small and medium hook machines are using the System 81 needle which also seem to be harder to find. Not necessarily in Germany but in other countries they seem to be harder to find. I`m not sure about 201 / RPX parts. The RPX may use the same or similar parts as the 200 (they are pretty much the same machine form my experience) but I´m not 100 sure so it is a gamble! But running ancient machines is always a gamble. No one can guarantee that parts are available. That where the Singer machines have their big advantages . A lot of nowadays made machines are based on the old Singers and therefore the parts situation is very good and for that reason I´m almost using Singer machines only. But thats just me and my philosophy.

(My) conclusion: The technically best patcher machines are the CLAES 200, 8345 and 8346 with the #3 suffix (largest hook) but parts are expensive if available at all (8346 is the best choice IMO). But economically the Singer 29K7x series is the better machine because of the spare parts situation. So maybe a Singer 29K72 is a good choice for you (if a patcher is the right choice at all) because it has larger hook than the 71 and 73 subclass.

Wow..!!! Wide and clear! Verry nice comparrison to the two systhems, just what i need(ed)I am very interested in the Claes if it is a 200-3 model with 88 needle. because i bought last week an 29k71 and the thread, needle, bobbin and stitchlenght are faerly small/thin bud i still have to play around first... .( Unfortunately, I did not have your advice last week) What can I ask the owner to measure, taking into account that it is a old man Who nevver worked with a sewing machine...he is not the only one ; )) I've already asked to look to the serial no. and asked the foot height but he can't find a number and had a measuremant of 5mm...? ( i Believe that the foot must have been down instead of UP...) It says K31 on the chassis but I can't find its meaning anywhere on the net ...( by looking pictures) but hope it's a feature of a 200-3 model. If the Needle is easy to remove (two screws?) and clearly numbered, that is maybe to consider if it realy can make the shift but I hope for an easier option...